Curse

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 15, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

My H/H aren't paying any attention to my target calls.

Age · Aug 15, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

While they are at it they can get rid of the grunting as ithas gone on for months now.

Sifow Chan · Aug 15, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

My H/H aren't paying any attention to my target calls.

Mine either...Plus when I flag them they don't listen half the time.

I also had something happen where my team got wiped out from groups joining to mob me. Well when I ressed...My henchmen ran to the mob that killed us and started fighting them even though they were like not on the mini map. I did not even have them flagged.

Regina Buenaobra · Aug 16, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 16, 2008, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Yeah, but behavior has changed. Not only will occasionally heroes run off into the sunset in search of enemies to attack, even though the player isn't in combat and the enemy is way outside the aggro circle, but heroes now refuse to use skills if they'd rather use some other skill (leading to the hero using no skill at all until you unclick - he wont use the one you ordered him to, and can't use the one he wants because you've ordered him to use another).

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 16, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

I would GUESS that the aggro-happy heroes & henchmen are acting out in an unplanned for way. It doesn't make any sense that the programmers would intentionally set Devona et.al. to aggro on enemies half way across the spin map!

Quote:

Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.

I would hope that the aggro range for heroes & henchmen would be the same as players, since it doesn't matter what weapon a player has, their aggro range is....wait for it...

THE SAME!

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 16, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

On the subject of caster modification, I believe that casters acting so very cautious puts backline players at a disadvantage - to have the AI follow our target calls (I've stopped bringing melee H/H because of the aggro obsession that they have developed) I, and most likely others, now have to actually get into aggro range, meaning we become something of a target, when previously we could call a target from a greater distance and the AI teammates would engage first, taking most of the aggro. I have noticed this most severely on my Paragon (where ideally the other party members take all the hits, to be absorbed by SY), but it also shows itself for my Ritualist and Elementalist.

Have any other players had this problem?

Nude Nira · Aug 16, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

Running out of the mini map, not following calls, not using selected skills and going to aggro some random group is a pretty significant change to me.

So what I can assume is that, by giving really no information at all, other then telling us the obvious, the devs meant to do this. I would have at least expected an answer somewhat along these lines: "Hmm, the devs didn't change the heroes to spaz out like they do, let me go look into it".

I think I'm going to agree with others when they say that Anet is trying to push us away from H/H and back to fail pugging? I have a feeling I'm right.

Stolen Souls · Aug 16, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

On the subject of caster modification, I believe that casters acting so very cautious puts backline players at a disadvantage - to have the AI follow our target calls (I've stopped bringing melee H/H because of the aggro obsession that they have developed) I, and most likely others, now have to actually get into aggro range, meaning we become something of a target, when previously we could call a target from a greater distance and the AI teammates would engage first, taking most of the aggro. I have noticed this most severely on my Paragon (where ideally the other party members take all the hits, to be absorbed by SY), but it also shows itself for my Ritualist and Elementalist.

Have any other players had this problem?

Yes, this is actually my biggest complaint. I've been working on my Monk...going for survivor. It's pretty hard to do so, when I have to draw the aggro myself. One time my health dropped to ~45. Since that close call, I stay way back and flag the h/h into the mobs. I'd much rather how it used to be...call the target and the h/h run in and engage. Now I call the target and they just....stand behind me...doing nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

So I guess we're just imagining them running halfway across the map to aggro a group we don't want to aggro, lol. Oh yeah....they aren't aggressive at all...it just seems that way. I mean c'mon...screenshots have been posted showing the melee henchies running off by themselves and getting killed. And that's the explanation we get? :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.

Try telling that to Devona...who runs off at any chance she gets, or the casters, that stand there picking their noses until the mob is right on top of them...it's one extreme and another.

dwc89 · Aug 16, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Hadn't played for a while, and after reading this it explains a bit.

Was wondering why the war hench in particular were running off to attack a group I sometimes didn't even notice.

Btw, it is not only Devona, but Talon Silverwing and Lukas as well. Haven't tried the prophecies versions yet.

So, something is amiss. And please don't give us the "working as intended" thing.

Thinking that having no H/H in GW2 is prob a good thing, less to break

SirSausage · Aug 16, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

I also noticed how hero minions barely react when I call a target.

It takes around 10 seconds for them to realize that they should move their rotten a55es and attack the target. Unfortunately, by then my health already dropped to 50 percent. On top of that, some henchies still heal minions.
There IS something wrong with the hero AI.

Nessar · Aug 16, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I've been having the same problem lately. I call a target, h/h stand there and do nothing. So if I'm a caster, I have to run in there and aggro the mob. Sometime even after I aggro mob, they still stand around and do nothing! So then I have to wand the shit out of something before they react. By the time they react, the monster is already dead -.-. This is really annoying on my monk, seeing as how she dies almost everytime I go to aggro a mob <<. (Also the same issue with minions, they do nothing until 80% of the mob is dead <<)
I could flag the h/h right in the middle of the mob, but they should respond to targets being called from a range :/

I never really had a problem with melee h/h running out and aggroing random stuff. Only in Naphui Quarter mission...other then that, they don't go aggro crazy. Oh, maybe while vanquishing, they love pulling everything in sight ._.

Minako Sawai · Aug 16, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I have mixed feelings about the new behavior. Last night I was playing with 3 heroes and 4 henchies, including Devona.

At first, her more aggressive "attack anything I see" worked well. She would take off up into a hilltop fort, aggro a group, then run back out and the rest of us picked them off. Rinse and repeat. Or she'd run off and aggro a new nearby mob just as the first was being finished off. It was harder, but I was enjoying things. I just adjusted my play to take that into account. I never had her taking off clear across the map, either. She did charge just about any nearby group that was well outside of the aggro circle, but ONLY when already fighting. When just running through an area I could go right by mobs with no problems; she'd behave herself. Her aggression only seemed to kick in during combat or while standing around and a mob started to get near the edge of the aggro circle.

Later on, at another fort, she ran off, along with some of Olias' minions and then the rest of the H/H decided to help her, but very piecemeal. It actually was quite wild, with each hero/hench attacking a different target, often with a minion helping; everyone all over the place and no teamwork. Needless to say, things didn't go very well. And they all ignored me even when I tried to draw everyone back. Plus I was laughing so hard at the whole situation that I didn't make very good decisions myself, so we all got killed. But it was fun.

I don't know, everyone always complains about how easy PvE is, so perhaps this should be welcomed. The AI is certainly playing more like many human players do. I kind of like the H/H not being complete robots. But then I'm a newbie and not playing in the harder parts of the game yet.

Red-Tide · Aug 16, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

What about the ressing glitch Regina? Is that intended? My dunkoro runs to whoever is dead starts casting then breaks it off and runs back. Sometimes I eventually get ressed, other times I have to resign or flag my heroes into a mob to get them all killed so we can all res.

This is intended behaviour? If so that is messed up...

Draikin · Aug 16, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.

The melee henchmen don't seem more aggressive than caster henchmen, they really are: when in combat they'll attack a target when it's within double the normal aggro range (equivalent to "Fight" setting on heroes), while all other henchmen attack targets within 1.5 times the normal aggro range ("Defend" setting on heroes).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red-Tide

What about the ressing glitch Regina? Is that intended? My dunkoro runs to whoever is dead starts casting then breaks it off and runs back. Sometimes I eventually get ressed, other times I have to resign or flag my heroes into a mob to get them all killed so we can all res.

They already confirmed this bug and are looking into it. Basically this problem has always been around, it just occurs more frequently after the update. It's been partially fixed before but was never fully resolved.

Abedeus · Aug 16, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Vanquishing in 6-8 areas h/h is EXTREMELY hard now. I mean, it used to be easy, but my Sister Tai likes to run close to enemies just to heal frontliner (one warrior... because it's not like I'm going to tank with a ranger or let monsters kill my squishies) or use Resurrect (...) mid-battle. And this way from easy-peasy battle it's EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING. Not challenging. Frustrating, because fighting with bug =/= challenge, it's masochism.

And melee henchmen don't seem aggressive, they ARE a bunch of idiots. I mean, you could fix them in 5 seconds if you wanted, A.Net. But why? Make h/h'ers suffer.

dwc89 · Aug 16, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Just did a SF run with H/H and guess who took off after a totally different mob than I had targeted - the one and only uber aggressive Devona.

Not fun having engaged one mob, have 2 boss mobs come runnig up a set of stairs to tell you - time to go.

It reminded me of being in a FoW pug and tank going "chest" and aggroing everything in site.

She did do this the entire time, but the aggros were manageable up to that point.

FlamingMetroid · Aug 16, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.

no, you're incorrect

-Makai- · Aug 16, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I'm sorry, but Regina's reply is grossly inaccurate. Was it intended for melee henchmen to aggro five groups at a time? Was it intended for Sousuke to just stand around twiddling his thumbs? Was it intended for Olias to ignore Death Pact Signet when he's the only party member still standing? Should players be punished for trying to carefully pull? Should players be punished for not wanting to party with the gibbering mess of children who make up 90% of the population? (Ready for 'join a guild' comments here).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minako Sawai

I don't know, everyone always complains about how easy PvE is, so perhaps this should be welcomed.

Please, please, please don't support this. There's a difference between making the game harder through legitimate means (making mobs a bit more variable, etc.) than making it frustrating due to poor programming. The more I think about it, I more I believe this whole problem was intentional. Oh well...I guess my dollar will be going to something else in the future. I haven't felt this addled about a gaming company since EA backstabbed their customers through SecuROM and shifted the blame.

I'm not even going to start on the whole 'melee henchmen seem to be more aggressive' band-aid.

Legion Magnus · Aug 16, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.

Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.

Whereas I can appreciate the interest to 'tweak' the Henchman for optimization, how about a toggle switch for those who do not want more aggressive Henchman (not unlike the stance modes for each Hero)?

Or better yet, open up the number of Heroes we can have and solve the problem entirely. Its good to have Henchman available for those who have not yet developed their number and expertise of Heroes yet. But for those that have and wish to use non-Human party members why not open up the Team to all Heroes?

I view the application of Heroes much like that of skills on a skill bar. You want the right mix of 'skills' to apply to the right circumstances. Most have put a lot of effort into developing their Heroes, why not let them take full advantage of them?

Legion Magnus